Diego Sanchez: 00:00:14

Inventory

Diego Sanchez: 00:00:15

is creeping back up to a, to a more healthy place.

Diego Sanchez: 00:00:20

There are a couple of dynamics, um, that should lead to lower mortgage rates in the coming years.

Diego Sanchez: 00:00:27

And then home prices, which, um, have just been going up and up and up.

Diego Sanchez: 00:00:34

Um, those seem to have, plateaued and it really does seem like, like, like we're hitting that, that sort of flat line, which I think would be a very positive story because they've gone

Diego Sanchez: 00:00:47

up probably too much, uh, in terms of, you know, affordability for first time home buyers.

Diego Sanchez: 00:00:53

Um, it's, it's been a lot of, uh, a lot of home price increase.

Diego Sanchez: 00:00:57

Um, we still have this great demographic patch of, uh, millennials and then Gen Z who need to buy a home, who are, who are creating families.

Diego Sanchez: 00:01:07

creating households and need to buy a home.

Diego Sanchez: 00:01:09

And if, if you get rates that, you know, dial back into the, into the mid to high fives, like they could, that's a pretty big refinance opportunity.

Diego Sanchez: 00:01:19

And then you tack on the home equity opportunity because all these people have had such incredible gains and reverse mortgages.

Diego Sanchez: 00:01:26

Um, so, um, yeah, I think there's a lot of opportunity in the next two to five years, and I'm, I'm personally, uh, pretty excited about it.

Voiceover: 00:01:41

You're listening to Batting 1,000 with Dale Vermillion, where heavy hitters from mortgage, real estate, and business share their secrets for lasting success

Voiceover: 00:01:50

with your host award winning sales strategist and industry icon, Dale Vermillion.

Dale Vermillion: 00:01:56

All right.

Dale Vermillion: 00:01:56

Hello everybody.

Dale Vermillion: 00:01:57

And welcome to batting a thousand.

Dale Vermillion: 00:01:59

Where we have the heavy hitters in the mortgage industry.

Dale Vermillion: 00:02:01

And this is going to be an incredible conversation because, uh, we have today, uh, Diego Sanchez, who is the president of housing wire.

Dale Vermillion: 00:02:10

Uh, Diego is a digital media veteran been around a long time doing this.

Dale Vermillion: 00:02:14

Uh, in executive management, uh, host of the 10 minute talks, um, on LinkedIn.

Dale Vermillion: 00:02:20

If you haven't seen those, you should check those out.

Dale Vermillion: 00:02:21

He's also a former senior leader at Travelzoo, Rodale and Adtelligent.

Dale Vermillion: 00:02:27

So he's got a ton of experience in this industry.

Dale Vermillion: 00:02:30

Uh, comes with a batches of art in governmental studies from Harvard.

Dale Vermillion: 00:02:34

Wow.

Dale Vermillion: 00:02:35

Okay.

Dale Vermillion: 00:02:35

And also a MBA from Columbia Business School, lives in Brooklyn with his wife and his two kids.

Dale Vermillion: 00:02:42

And Diego, I also am going to add, I consider you a good friend.

Dale Vermillion: 00:02:47

And that's my favorite part about having you.

Dale Vermillion: 00:02:49

Uh, you and I had a chance to hang out together over dinner at the housing wire gathering event, which was the just an incredible, incredible event.

Dale Vermillion: 00:02:58

If you haven't signed up for the gathering for 2025, do it because you'll want to be there.

Dale Vermillion: 00:03:02

That was a great event.

Dale Vermillion: 00:03:03

And we want to open up by talking about your IMB summit that's coming up.

Dale Vermillion: 00:03:07

So Diego, welcome.

Dale Vermillion: 00:03:08

We're glad to have you here.

Dale Vermillion: 00:03:10

Talk to us about what's happening in housing where right now and, uh, what you're doing with this IMB summit come up.

Dale Vermillion: 00:03:15

You just came off the AI summit.

Dale Vermillion: 00:03:17

There's just a whole lot that's happening.

Dale Vermillion: 00:03:19

I'd love to hear some of the highlights that came out of those things and what you're planning coming up in October.

Diego Sanchez: 00:03:25

Well, Dale, first of all, I just really appreciate you having me on your show.

Diego Sanchez: 00:03:30

Uh, what an honor for me.

Diego Sanchez: 00:03:33

Uh, I always enjoy catching up with you and I also consider you a good friend Enjoyed chatting with you and and your better half, uh at the gathering.

Diego Sanchez: 00:03:42

That was really fun Really felt like we got to know each other Over the course of that dinner.

Diego Sanchez: 00:03:48

Um, so housing wires busy, you know, the, the, the, the news in mortgage and in housing overall has not slowed down at all in the six years that I've been with the company.

Diego Sanchez: 00:04:01

It's sort of big news event after big news event, uh, for the past six years.

Diego Sanchez: 00:04:07

So the summer continues to be busy for housing wire.

Diego Sanchez: 00:04:11

We did just launch a new.

Diego Sanchez: 00:04:13

Live event concept, which we're pretty excited about.

Diego Sanchez: 00:04:16

We call them one day summits.

Diego Sanchez: 00:04:18

Our first one day summit was on artificial intelligence and we sold out the George Bush presidential center auditorium for that event, which was really fun.

Diego Sanchez: 00:04:33

It's a really neat venue that where you get to see, um, you know, some of the history of that administration and our country.

Diego Sanchez: 00:04:41

Actually, some of the artwork that that George Bush has done is hanging up in the hallways, and it's just a really, really conducive environment for executive networking and learning.

Diego Sanchez: 00:04:56

And so all the feedback that we got from that event has been very positive, and we want to keep going with this concept of bringing the industry together.

Diego Sanchez: 00:05:07

for one day events around topics that are really resonating right now.

Diego Sanchez: 00:05:13

So when we came out of the gathering, you know, everyone was talking in sessions and in the hallways about artificial intelligence.

Diego Sanchez: 00:05:20

So that was our first one day summit made a lot of sense.

Diego Sanchez: 00:05:23

Um, I think another big topic at the gathering was, you know, what are independent mortgage banks going to do in this higher for longer mortgage rate environment?

Diego Sanchez: 00:05:35

How are they going to survive and even thrive?

Diego Sanchez: 00:05:39

And so that's the second one day summit we're calling it the IMB summit, but it's going to be focused on.

Diego Sanchez: 00:05:46

You know how people can win in this in this still somewhat difficult environment.

Diego Sanchez: 00:05:50

Um, so the IMB summit will be October 1st back in Dallas at the George Bush Presidential Center.

Diego Sanchez: 00:05:58

Uh, would really love to have, uh, you and Jake and, uh, all the members of your of your audience, uh, join us there.

Dale Vermillion: 00:06:07

Awesome.

Dale Vermillion: 00:06:08

So let's talk about that for just a minute.

Dale Vermillion: 00:06:10

What do you see?

Dale Vermillion: 00:06:12

You know, you see everything as president has where you've been doing this for six months.

Dale Vermillion: 00:06:16

I know that you've grown extensively in your role, but you've been there for a long time.

Dale Vermillion: 00:06:20

Um, and I know that you see everything.

Dale Vermillion: 00:06:22

You like me talk to executives every single day.

Dale Vermillion: 00:06:26

run mortgage companies.

Dale Vermillion: 00:06:27

You see what's happening out in the marketplace.

Dale Vermillion: 00:06:29

Um, talk from your perspective.

Dale Vermillion: 00:06:32

Uh, what are you seeing the trends to be in the marketplace and what are lenders doing to succeed in this marketplace?

Dale Vermillion: 00:06:40

Most importantly?

Diego Sanchez: 00:06:42

Yeah, that's a really good question.

Diego Sanchez: 00:06:45

And I think there are a couple of key things that I see In my conversations and in our coverage of the winners in this environment, um, and one of those is, uh, keeping a really close eye on costs.

Diego Sanchez: 00:07:06

Um, the, uh, the cost to originate a mortgage, and this is, you know, no secret, uh, the NBA puts out their, uh, their study every quarter.

Diego Sanchez: 00:07:16

Um, you know, it got up as high as, uh, you know, 13 and a half thousand on average, uh, per, per, per mortgage.

Diego Sanchez: 00:07:24

Which is insane, right?

Diego Sanchez: 00:07:26

Um, I think it's, it's come back a little bit, uh, you know, to, to mid 11s, but still when you think about, um, you know, margin compression and a difficult being in a difficult environment where the volume is not what it used to be.

Diego Sanchez: 00:07:43

Keeping a really close eye on costs and understanding your cost structure and the technologies that can potentially help you improve that cost structure, um, is super important.

Diego Sanchez: 00:07:56

Uh, and, uh, you know, probably butchered this a little bit, but the CEO of Freedom Mortgage at the gathering, you know, just his whole session was about, Hey, you got to make more money, you know, Per loan, then it costs you, right?

Diego Sanchez: 00:08:11

Like it, it's, it sounds very simple, but, um, a lot of lenders aren't there.

Diego Sanchez: 00:08:17

Um, and, um, and so that's, that's a really, really big one.

Diego Sanchez: 00:08:22

Um, I think another really big one is, um, despite how difficult the environment is, there are a lot of owners and executive teams that want to grow.

Diego Sanchez: 00:08:36

And our winning market share either organically and or through M& A.

Diego Sanchez: 00:08:43

Um, and so it's been really interesting to see the makeup of these organizations that are, you know, continuing to win.

Diego Sanchez: 00:08:53

Uh, in this difficult environment, um, and, uh, and so, you know, like taking a look at what they do and understanding how they're doing, what they're doing, um, seems like a really good recipe for, for, for success.

Diego Sanchez: 00:09:08

Um, so, and then the, the, the third thing, um, is, um, you know, there's like two key data points, uh, in, in the, in the housing market from my perspective, um, one is mortgage rates.

Diego Sanchez: 00:09:23

Right.

Diego Sanchez: 00:09:24

Um, and the other is inventory of homes available for sale.

Diego Sanchez: 00:09:28

Um, and, um, there are a lot of, uh, data providers out there and, uh, you know, media companies, um, that look at that data, you know, on a weekly basis or on a monthly basis, you know, home price indexes, um, that include inventory.

Diego Sanchez: 00:09:49

Okay.

Diego Sanchez: 00:09:49

It can sometimes be up a month, month, or two stale.

Diego Sanchez: 00:09:53

Um, it's really important to, um, attach yourself, um, to, uh, to a, a media company or, um, you know, a research company that is a little bit more timely with that data because it moves, uh, so quickly, uh, and so frequently.

Diego Sanchez: 00:10:14

That if you're looking at data that is a month stale or two months stale, that's not going to help you, uh, maneuver your business through, uh, you know, a still difficult environment.

Diego Sanchez: 00:10:26

Um, and so timeliness of the data and analysis of the data.

Diego Sanchez: 00:10:31

Um, I think it's really important to, uh, managing a business.

Dale Vermillion: 00:10:36

So, so let's talk about that a little bit more for just a minute, because you, you said some really important things there.

Dale Vermillion: 00:10:41

You talked first about costs.

Dale Vermillion: 00:10:43

I've always been a believer, you know, I, I consult to executives across the nation on how to succeed.

Dale Vermillion: 00:10:47

And we've got clients.

Dale Vermillion: 00:10:49

They're crushing it.

Dale Vermillion: 00:10:49

And I'm curious to, to hear from you, if you're seeing the same thing I'm seeing, what I'm seeing in this marketplace for the last two and a half years now is haves and have nots and nothing in between

Dale Vermillion: 00:11:02

either, either companies are absolutely slaying this market and they're happy where the rates are at, they're happy with what's going on, they're making a lot of money and they're closing a lot of loans or.

Dale Vermillion: 00:11:14

They're just dying on the vine and trying to figure out how to survive.

Dale Vermillion: 00:11:17

And those companies are the ones that latch on right away to that cost cutting idea.

Dale Vermillion: 00:11:22

Well, that's the way to profitability, but there's two sides of profitability.

Dale Vermillion: 00:11:26

There's cost cutting on one side and there's conversion on the other side.

Dale Vermillion: 00:11:30

You you've got to cut.

Dale Vermillion: 00:11:31

But you've got to convert at the same time.

Dale Vermillion: 00:11:33

And I think that's where the game is most highly accomplished that I'm seeing with my clients in the marketplace is the ones who understand that we're out of a volume market

Dale Vermillion: 00:11:44

that we were in in 2020 and 2021, we'd been in a conversion market for two and a half years.

Dale Vermillion: 00:11:50

If you're going to succeed, you got to start by cost cutting, but the thing you can't cut are the essentials that will allow you to convert more quickly.

Dale Vermillion: 00:11:57

Of your transactions and the funded loans.

Dale Vermillion: 00:12:00

So tell me based on that analogy, where do you see from your perspective?

Dale Vermillion: 00:12:07

Do you see this haves and have nots disparity and what are they doing to convert better?

Diego Sanchez: 00:12:13

You know, I think that there's, um, been a real flight to quality in, uh, the housing ecosystem.

Diego Sanchez: 00:12:23

Over the last two years si since we, since we saw things slow down.

Diego Sanchez: 00:12:27

Yeah.

Diego Sanchez: 00:12:28

Um, you know, the, during the, the pandemic housing boom, um, you didn't have to do much to, to to get business, right?

Diego Sanchez: 00:12:35

The business was kind of reigning on, on all the advisors, uh, you know, whether you're real estate advisor or, or mortgage advisor.

Diego Sanchez: 00:12:43

Um, but, uh, in a more difficult market, uh, you really see who the good.

Diego Sanchez: 00:12:50

Uh, loan officers are and who the good real estate agents are.

Diego Sanchez: 00:12:53

And I, it feels like consumers are gravitating towards those folks who are, uh, you know, the, the 90, 10 LOs, right.

Diego Sanchez: 00:13:02

The, the,

Voiceover: 00:13:03

the, the

Diego Sanchez: 00:13:04

10 percent of, of LOs that are, that are doing 90 percent of the business.

Diego Sanchez: 00:13:08

And it's even more dramatic on the real estate side, you know, the 5 percent of real estate agents that are doing 95 percent of the business.

Diego Sanchez: 00:13:15

And so I think that The organizations that are able to retain, well, first of all, attract, uh, and, uh, recruit and then retain those winners, um, are, are the, the ones that I think are

Diego Sanchez: 00:13:33

able to move the needle and win market share because, you know, even though, um, you know, the housing market, you know, It definitely, uh, took a, took a pretty deep dive, uh, from the boom.

Diego Sanchez: 00:13:45

Um, there's still going to be, you know, 4 million or so homes sold every year.

Diego Sanchez: 00:13:51

Uh, and so there's still business for, uh, you know, a strong core of, of loan officers and real estate agents.

Diego Sanchez: 00:13:59

Um, and, uh, you know, I think that the, the, the winners are winning more business in this environment.

Diego Sanchez: 00:14:05

Um, they're able to show their value, uh, they're able to be strong advisors, um, and they're able to, uh, work with borrowers and potential borrowers.

Diego Sanchez: 00:14:17

Who, uh, you know, uh, maybe have more unique or difficult situations.

Diego Sanchez: 00:14:21

Um, so, um, you know, I think the winners are winning.

Dale Vermillion: 00:14:26

I love what it's, it's fun for me to hear you and your position as the president of Hollywood Wire really is a company that really provides the

Dale Vermillion: 00:14:37

best data and information and publications out there today to keep people informed.

Dale Vermillion: 00:14:43

And yet what you're talking about as the key to success is really built around the relationship, the value prop, the customer experience, how they're treating customers just saw a report that came

Dale Vermillion: 00:14:58

out from lending tree where they did a study of tens of thousands of consumers who closed loans and.

Dale Vermillion: 00:15:03

Over half of those 53 or 54 percent work with the first lender they talked to, which was so interesting.

Dale Vermillion: 00:15:10

And, and what that tells you is that consumers, when rates are up, are more concerned about somebody explaining to them, why should I buy in this market?

Dale Vermillion: 00:15:20

Or why should I refinance in this market?

Dale Vermillion: 00:15:22

Or why should I use my equity in this market?

Dale Vermillion: 00:15:25

Then my rates a quarter percent less than somebody else where I'm seeing the disparity in the industry today is.

Dale Vermillion: 00:15:32

The companies that are still focused on being very transactional.

Dale Vermillion: 00:15:35

are failing miserably and the ones that are very relational are succeeding greatly.

Dale Vermillion: 00:15:40

That's to me where the divide happens.

Dale Vermillion: 00:15:43

And you mentioned in a moment ago, you talked about being an advisor.

Dale Vermillion: 00:15:45

The companies were winning.

Dale Vermillion: 00:15:47

They have an advisor mentality.

Dale Vermillion: 00:15:49

They're built on a great customer experience.

Dale Vermillion: 00:15:51

They look at providing their customers with Loan officers that really know how to build that strong relationship, provide that great value proposition.

Dale Vermillion: 00:16:00

So it all ties into what success is within this industry today.

Dale Vermillion: 00:16:04

It's about really treating that customer differently than you did in 2020 and 2021, where you could be transactional and get away with it, but you can't today.

Dale Vermillion: 00:16:14

So let's talk for a little bit about the importance of.

Dale Vermillion: 00:16:18

Information because that's where you guys are so powerful.

Dale Vermillion: 00:16:21

I couldn't do my job if I didn't have access to housing wire and all of the data and all of the articles and all of the information that you guys provide on a regular basis, talk about the importance from your perspective.

Dale Vermillion: 00:16:35

of lenders and loan officers alike, all the way down to the originator level, the importance of having the right data, the right information, understanding the marketplace.

Dale Vermillion: 00:16:44

And then what do you do with that?

Dale Vermillion: 00:16:45

When you get it, how do you respond?

Dale Vermillion: 00:16:47

Talk about that from your perspective.

Diego Sanchez: 00:16:50

Yeah.

Diego Sanchez: 00:16:50

I mean, it gets back to what we just talked about.

Diego Sanchez: 00:16:53

Uh, it's really hard to be.

Diego Sanchez: 00:16:55

a good advisor, uh, if you don't know what's going on in the market, what's going on with the data, uh, yeah, and specifically your, your local market.

Diego Sanchez: 00:17:07

Um, and, uh, so, you know, being a good advisor just really requires you to, to be smart, uh, on what it is you work on.

Diego Sanchez: 00:17:17

Um, and if you're a loan officer.

Diego Sanchez: 00:17:19

Um, you work in the housing market.

Diego Sanchez: 00:17:21

And so, you know, w w what's happening with inventory in the markets that you cover, um, what's happening with home prices, uh, what's happening with rates,

Diego Sanchez: 00:17:34

even though we can't control rates, you need to know what's happening with them.

Diego Sanchez: 00:17:37

Right.

Diego Sanchez: 00:17:37

Uh, and having a good feel for, you know, where they're heading.

Diego Sanchez: 00:17:41

Um, so that you can give that really good advice to your client and also like knowing your products, you Um, you know, it's a, uh, in a more difficult market, um, you know, it's not

Diego Sanchez: 00:17:52

just, it's not just conforming loans, um, that are, that are going to win you business, right?

Diego Sanchez: 00:17:57

You've got to, you've got to know about, you've got to know about non QM.

Diego Sanchez: 00:18:01

Uh, you've got to know about home equity, right?

Diego Sanchez: 00:18:03

Like you've got a bunch of clients who are sitting on a pretty nice, uh, pretty nice gains, uh, from, you know, those, those home price gains over the past, Uh decade, um, and so you've got you've

Diego Sanchez: 00:18:15

got to know home equity um and uh, so knowing your products Knowing the data and Knowing what's happening more broadly Um in the news that will impact Uh, the housing market is really important too.

Diego Sanchez: 00:18:32

So like right now Uh, we're in the middle of an election season and it might be a very different housing market You under, uh, under the different candidates that, that we've got.

Diego Sanchez: 00:18:43

Um, uh, so understanding how things might change, um, is, is super important.

Diego Sanchez: 00:18:51

Are we going to, uh, be getting into more of a refinance situation again?

Diego Sanchez: 00:18:56

Um, because rates have come down so much recently.

Diego Sanchez: 00:18:59

Um, it's, it's, it's really good to understand all of that stuff.

Diego Sanchez: 00:19:03

Again, so you can provide that really good advice to your clients.

Diego Sanchez: 00:19:06

And if you give that good advice, um, that's where your business comes from in the future, not only from them when they, you know, do another transaction down the road, whether that's refinance or, or buy a new house.

Diego Sanchez: 00:19:19

Um, but those referrals are golden.

Diego Sanchez: 00:19:21

Um, you know, if you, if you give somebody a good experience, um, most people, um, you know, get a referral.

Diego Sanchez: 00:19:29

Well, In terms of mortgage get a referral from their real estate agent or from their family, right?

Diego Sanchez: 00:19:34

So if you're if you're giving someone a good experience Um based on that information that you know That's going to be a winner for you.

Dale Vermillion: 00:19:42

I love that.

Dale Vermillion: 00:19:43

I just interviewed a couple months ago I had a loan officer on that has been a client, uh works for a client of mine for many years Closing 60 loans a month in this marketplace, 60 loans a month.

Dale Vermillion: 00:19:56

And he made the statement.

Dale Vermillion: 00:19:57

I said, so what's the number one key to success?

Dale Vermillion: 00:20:00

And he echoed what you just said.

Dale Vermillion: 00:20:01

He said, you've got to be the smartest person in the transaction.

Dale Vermillion: 00:20:03

That's all there is to it.

Dale Vermillion: 00:20:04

You've got to be the person that understands the market, understands your products, understands the process, understands every aspect of it.

Dale Vermillion: 00:20:11

And you've got to be more articulate than anybody else are going to talk to.

Dale Vermillion: 00:20:15

And they're not going to care about your rates at that point, because when rates are in the sixes and sevens, a quarter percent doesn't move the needle for a borrower.

Dale Vermillion: 00:20:22

What moves the needle is who's the most knowledgeable person that gave me the best advice when I worked through.

Dale Vermillion: 00:20:27

So let me ask you this question because.

Dale Vermillion: 00:20:29

We're talking about the importance of having access to information and data about the market so you can be that good advisor.

Dale Vermillion: 00:20:35

But what I tend to see happens a lot is that can also lead to this negative thing called analysis paralysis, where we've got, we've got originators that All they do is they live by what rates are doing.

Dale Vermillion: 00:20:49

And as a result, when rates go up, their attitude drops, they're, they're, they're not positive with their customers.

Dale Vermillion: 00:20:56

And they're given many times wrong advice.

Dale Vermillion: 00:20:59

When rates go down, all of a sudden they get excited and it changes and they get caught up in the information where it actually can become detrimental to them.

Dale Vermillion: 00:21:07

I know with the companies that I train every single month, you know, we, we train thousands of loan officers across the nation and dozens of mortgage companies every single month.

Dale Vermillion: 00:21:16

I'm always making sure that I'm pulling out, out of the headlines.

Dale Vermillion: 00:21:19

What are the things you really need to know to help you succeed in this marketplace?

Dale Vermillion: 00:21:23

And those are things like where's inventory heading?

Dale Vermillion: 00:21:25

Very, very important.

Dale Vermillion: 00:21:26

Where's affordability at?

Dale Vermillion: 00:21:27

How do you improve that?

Dale Vermillion: 00:21:28

You know, not what our rates, because rates are what they are, but how do you best take advantage of the rates so you get the lowest payment you can.

Dale Vermillion: 00:21:38

Talk from your perspective.

Dale Vermillion: 00:21:40

How do you see lenders Working through and what's your advice to get the right information, but don't get caught up in that trap of letting it become a negative force, but keep it as a positive force.

Diego Sanchez: 00:21:53

Yeah.

Diego Sanchez: 00:21:54

I mean, it's, it's tough because there is a lot of noise.

Diego Sanchez: 00:21:58

There

Dale Vermillion: 00:21:59

is,

Diego Sanchez: 00:21:59

there's a lot of noise.

Diego Sanchez: 00:22:01

And so I think it, uh, I think it comes down to finding, um, a couple of resources.

Diego Sanchez: 00:22:10

and information sources that you trust and that aren't, um, you know, are consistently not, uh, doing clickbait headlines.

Diego Sanchez: 00:22:23

They're consistently, uh, really giving you an understanding and a good analysis of, of where things are heading.

Diego Sanchez: 00:22:32

Um, and they're, they're as unbiased as possible.

Diego Sanchez: 00:22:37

And, um, you know, just bringing you the information, um, and, um, and helping you understand it.

Diego Sanchez: 00:22:46

Um, so I, I, I think it's, you know, because there are so many sources out sources of information out there.

Diego Sanchez: 00:22:52

Yep.

Diego Sanchez: 00:22:52

Um, And a lot of them are, you know, candidly, uh, inaccurate about the housing market, especially when you look at, um, uh, media companies that, um, don't do housing media for a living, they kind of dip into housing every once in a while.

Diego Sanchez: 00:23:12

Uh, you know, I'm thinking of, you know, the really big mainstream news outlets.

Diego Sanchez: 00:23:17

Um, they're really good at bringing general news and information about what's happening in the world.

Diego Sanchez: 00:23:24

But sometimes when they try to dip into housing and give you a perspective on housing, It's wrong.

Diego Sanchez: 00:23:30

It is not accurate.

Diego Sanchez: 00:23:32

Uh, and so I, I think it's really important to, um, you know, you want to know what's going on in the world, but if you want to know what's going on in housing, um, find a couple of trusted sources, um, that, that bring it to you in a way.

Diego Sanchez: 00:23:48

That is, that is not clickbaity, that is not sensational, and that is fact based, uh, and that gives you good analysis.

Diego Sanchez: 00:23:56

Um, so I think

Dale Vermillion: 00:23:56

that's one of them.

Dale Vermillion: 00:23:57

I think you just defined housing wire.

Diego Sanchez: 00:24:00

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I, that, that's really what we try to do.

Diego Sanchez: 00:24:03

I mean, that's, I, you know, again, I've been, I've been at the company for six years.

Diego Sanchez: 00:24:07

Uh, when I joined, the newsroom was already incredible.

Diego Sanchez: 00:24:12

I think the company already had a really good reputation in mortgage, but what we've done over the past six years is we've broadened the lens.

Diego Sanchez: 00:24:22

So we're still very smart on mortgage.

Diego Sanchez: 00:24:25

We still track mortgage very closely, but we're looking at the entire housing ecosystem now.

Diego Sanchez: 00:24:31

And I think that's important because And we should talk about this a little bit.

Diego Sanchez: 00:24:35

What's happening in real estate with the commission lawsuits and the NAR settlements, uh, what's happening in appraisal, you know, with there not being enough appraisers, um, and, uh, you know, what's

Diego Sanchez: 00:24:48

happening in title, uh, all these things impact the loan officer and lenders so much that you can't.

Diego Sanchez: 00:24:58

Stay in a silo when it comes to the housing market, you've got to understand, um, what's happening, you know, with, with your, with your real estate partners and your title partners and your appraisal partners.

Dale Vermillion: 00:25:12

And I love how you guys deliver the information.

Dale Vermillion: 00:25:14

I love the housing wire member digest, how it's broken down and really simplified for people that don't understand the raw data.

Dale Vermillion: 00:25:22

You and I deal in that all the time.

Dale Vermillion: 00:25:24

So.

Dale Vermillion: 00:25:24

We can look at the raw data and pull out what we need to know and go forward.

Dale Vermillion: 00:25:28

But for the average originator or even manager, for that matter, a lot of times they don't know how to do that.

Dale Vermillion: 00:25:34

You guys disseminate that information properly so that people really understand.

Dale Vermillion: 00:25:37

So let's talk about those three things you just mentioned, because that was actually three of the things I wanted to discuss with you based on what I've seen.

Dale Vermillion: 00:25:43

Come on, let's start with the NAR settlement.

Dale Vermillion: 00:25:45

Where do you see that at?

Dale Vermillion: 00:25:47

Where do you see that going?

Dale Vermillion: 00:25:48

August 17th, right around the corner.

Dale Vermillion: 00:25:50

So let's talk about that for just a minute.

Dale Vermillion: 00:25:52

It is.

Diego Sanchez: 00:25:55

It's a new world.

Diego Sanchez: 00:25:56

It's, it's, it's a new normal and there are going to be a lot of impacts.

Diego Sanchez: 00:26:02

That, um, that loan officers and lending executives need to be aware of, um, because, um, there might be a lot fewer buyers agents out there.

Diego Sanchez: 00:26:14

Yep.

Diego Sanchez: 00:26:15

Um, and you know, what's the number one source of, um, Business and referrals for a lot of LOs.

Diego Sanchez: 00:26:23

It's the buyer's agent.

Voiceover: 00:26:24

Right.

Diego Sanchez: 00:26:25

Um, so.

Diego Sanchez: 00:26:26

You know, just like we're seeing a flight to quality on, uh, on the mortgage side.

Diego Sanchez: 00:26:32

That's happening in real estate, but it's almost like I'm turbo.

Diego Sanchez: 00:26:36

Um, because, um, you don't have as a, as a listing agent and as a seller, uh, you no longer have, have to, uh, list.

Diego Sanchez: 00:26:49

Buyer's compensation, buyer's agent compensation, um, in your listing on the MLS,

Voiceover: 00:26:55

right?

Voiceover: 00:26:56

And you

Diego Sanchez: 00:26:56

no longer have to offer it.

Voiceover: 00:26:57

Right.

Diego Sanchez: 00:26:57

Um, and so what that means, you know, a lot of times when, when you buy a house, Um, you're not, uh, you're not paying your agent, you're not paying your buyer's agent out of pocket.

Diego Sanchez: 00:27:10

Um, it's actually coming from the seller.

Diego Sanchez: 00:27:12

Um, so the seller is paying a commission to their, to their listing agent.

Diego Sanchez: 00:27:18

And that listing agent in the past, um, was split splitting that, that commission with the buyer's agent.

Diego Sanchez: 00:27:24

Um, and so a lot of that is going to go away and there will still be, uh, commission splits and sharing.

Diego Sanchez: 00:27:32

Um, it's just going to be a whole different ball game in terms of how that's communicated.

Diego Sanchez: 00:27:38

And there are going to be a lot of listing agents, especially if we're in a buyer's market who say, I don't really need to give much.

Diego Sanchez: 00:27:47

compensation, um, because it's hot.

Diego Sanchez: 00:27:50

Like I'm going to get a lot of offers and no matter what, so I'm going to, I'm going to keep more of that, of this commission.

Diego Sanchez: 00:27:55

And so what that means is.

Diego Sanchez: 00:27:57

They're going to be a lot of buyers agents who are trying to figure out how they're going to make, make their money, make, make their commissions.

Diego Sanchez: 00:28:05

Uh, and so you may see models where they're charging by the hour.

Diego Sanchez: 00:28:09

You may see buyers agent commissions go down fairly significantly and that will push out.

Diego Sanchez: 00:28:16

a certain number of buyers agents who can no longer cut it, uh, who can no longer make a living off of, off of, off of commissions.

Diego Sanchez: 00:28:25

Um, and so understanding that dynamic and thinking about where your referral partnerships should be, you want to pick those buyers agents Who are the winners and who are going to keep doing business?

Diego Sanchez: 00:28:39

Um, maybe you want to get more uh close to Listing agents.

Diego Sanchez: 00:28:45

Yep, because listing agents might be making those mortgage referrals Um, maybe you want to figure out a way to get to that lead yourself, that home buying lead yourself.

Diego Sanchez: 00:28:55

Um, and maybe you share that with a real estate agent, maybe you hire a real estate agent onto your team.

Diego Sanchez: 00:29:02

Uh, you've got, and you've got a buyer's agent on your team.

Diego Sanchez: 00:29:05

I think there's all sorts of ways that people can look at, um, what's happening with, with commissions from those lawsuits in the settlement, but it is going to be changing and it's going to be changing quickly.

Diego Sanchez: 00:29:16

Like you said.

Diego Sanchez: 00:29:17

Uh, the 17th is when, um, uh, this is finalized and these changes have to be in effect.

Diego Sanchez: 00:29:25

Um, but there are some states and regions that are doing it earlier.

Diego Sanchez: 00:29:29

Um, there are several MLSs that have already removed, uh, buyer's agent compensation from listings.

Diego Sanchez: 00:29:36

Um, and so, uh, the changes are going to be fast and furious.

Diego Sanchez: 00:29:40

And.

Diego Sanchez: 00:29:41

It will be really, really important to be tied to an information source.

Diego Sanchez: 00:29:47

That is tracking this very closely and what the different real estate brokerages are doing what team leaders are doing What individual agents are doing?

Diego Sanchez: 00:29:57

um on the buyer and the selling side And how that is impacting?

Diego Sanchez: 00:30:03

The referral partnerships that are the lifeblood of of loan origination um, so yeah, it's it it's it's going to be really important over the next You Three to six months to stay close to this story.

Diego Sanchez: 00:30:18

And again, that trusted information source, a couple of those information sources.

Diego Sanchez: 00:30:23

You know, you want to be understanding, you know, what's happening with these commission lawsuits in the settlement.

Dale Vermillion: 00:30:29

I think the one thing that we can certainly, uh, uh, agree on, and we know is already going to happen is the low producing real estate agents on the buyer side will be out of the market.

Dale Vermillion: 00:30:39

It's, it's just going to be the ones that really were doing a lot of business that listing agents will want to continue to have relationship with and work out.

Dale Vermillion: 00:30:47

And there's a lot of dual agency or dual relationship happening now where The listing agents are going to take the buyer side and the listing side both.

Dale Vermillion: 00:30:54

So it becomes dual representation on that, which isn't great for the consumer.

Dale Vermillion: 00:30:59

Um, because you really don't have anybody then who's protecting you on the, on the offer side, because it's in the best interest of the listing agent to sell it, but also represent the buy.

Dale Vermillion: 00:31:11

So that's one of the biggest concerns in this whole thing.

Diego Sanchez: 00:31:15

Dale, if I were to guess on that, that dual agency situation, um, I, that, that could be an area that, uh, the Department of Justice, um, goes after next.

Dale Vermillion: 00:31:27

I would, I would think so.

Diego Sanchez: 00:31:29

Because if you, you just said it, like, if you just think about it logically, um, Both sides cannot be, um, adequately represented, uh, if one person is representing both

Diego Sanchez: 00:31:44

sides, one of the, one of the sides is getting the shaft in that, in that, in that situation.

Diego Sanchez: 00:31:51

And, and so I don't think that that is, that is going to be an outcome of all the stuff that has happened.

Diego Sanchez: 00:31:57

Uh, and I think it's an unfortunate outcome and my guess is there will be more litigation.

Diego Sanchez: 00:32:03

In that area.

Diego Sanchez: 00:32:03

So that, um, you know, really both sides should have a trusted advisor.

Diego Sanchez: 00:32:08

Uh, and so we have, but we have to figure out a way.

Diego Sanchez: 00:32:11

To properly compensate the buyer's agent because they do a lot of work.

Diego Sanchez: 00:32:15

It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a tough job and the good ones, um, really save their clients a lot of money, uh, negotiate well for their clients.

Diego Sanchez: 00:32:24

And if it's a first time home buyer, I mean, it is such a complicated transaction.

Diego Sanchez: 00:32:29

They do a lot of work to, to, to, to simplify a very complicated transaction for that first time home buyer.

Diego Sanchez: 00:32:35

So I don't think they go away, but you know, we've talked about this already.

Diego Sanchez: 00:32:39

And to your point, um, I think there are going to be a lot fewer of them.

Dale Vermillion: 00:32:43

Well, and what we're teaching our clients and I'm teaching originators across the country is this is also very opportunistic for a loan originator, because if you are incredibly knowledgeable on the process

Dale Vermillion: 00:32:54

and you can educate the borrower where the real estate agent Used to do that function you become that much more valuable to the borrower in the process and Less and less chance you're going to go to your competition.

Dale Vermillion: 00:33:06

So that becomes the opportunity All right Let's close out by talking about um the other two things the appraisal problem and the title issue that you were talking about That we're seeing in the marketplace talk about that for a few minutes.

Diego Sanchez: 00:33:18

Yeah, so um We really noticed this during the pandemic boom when um Um, uh, there were just a lot of, uh, logistical issues that came up in the valuation process.

Diego Sanchez: 00:33:33

Um, and there weren't, there weren't enough appraisers and there aren't enough appraisers.

Diego Sanchez: 00:33:38

Um, it is an industry that for a number of reasons, um, has, you know, most of the, uh, workers approaching retirement age, uh, and will likely retire in the next decade.

Diego Sanchez: 00:33:50

Um, and so, um, we already had an issue.

Diego Sanchez: 00:33:55

Um, uh, that we saw during, during the last boom and, you know, housing is a cyclical business.

Diego Sanchez: 00:34:03

So there will be another boom.

Diego Sanchez: 00:34:05

There hasn't been anything that's been done to really fix the problem of there not being enough appraisers.

Dale Vermillion: 00:34:10

Right.

Diego Sanchez: 00:34:10

Um, and so, um, you know, you know, maybe it's, maybe it's technology and, and, and we've got to integrate, uh, AVMs more, uh, automated valuation models more into the process.

Diego Sanchez: 00:34:23

You know, maybe when you look at, um, you know, more standard type properties, um, you know, you, you have to do less when it comes to getting a, a, a fully licensed appraiser involved,

Diego Sanchez: 00:34:35

uh, and maybe like, that's a way to, um, uh, to, to skip some of the logistical hurdles.

Diego Sanchez: 00:34:42

But, uh, there's still an issue there, and, um, it's not one that can be fully, uh, fixed by technology.

Diego Sanchez: 00:34:50

I think that that that industry is going to have to figure out how they, um, integrate trainees and new blood more quickly, um, is very difficult to become an appraiser.

Diego Sanchez: 00:35:04

Um, and, uh, and, um, there's a whole apprenticeship model, um, that doesn't really make a lot of economic sense for the people who are going to be training.

Diego Sanchez: 00:35:14

Right.

Diego Sanchez: 00:35:14

The fully licensed appraisers.

Diego Sanchez: 00:35:16

Um, so there's just a lot of, a lot of complication, um, that is, that will need to be solved before the next housing boom that will, you know, come in the next couple of years.

Diego Sanchez: 00:35:26

And, uh, so hopefully that, that will happen and, and maybe we integrate more use of, of, of, of ABMs.

Diego Sanchez: 00:35:36

And then with, with title, um, you know, I think, I think the issue there that's, that's pretty interesting is, um, you know, do you need title?

Diego Sanchez: 00:35:47

Um, or do you need the full title process?

Diego Sanchez: 00:35:51

Uh, when you're doing things like a refinance, um, uh, on a property where, where the title was fully established, uh, in the original transaction, um, you know, are, are there ways that you could reduce some fees there?

Diego Sanchez: 00:36:07

Um, you know, the title industry.

Diego Sanchez: 00:36:10

Um, also has some competition from, um, uh, attorney opinion letters and other title alternatives.

Diego Sanchez: 00:36:19

Um, so, you know, could those bring the cost down, uh, of title, um, uh, you know, going forward.

Diego Sanchez: 00:36:28

Um, so just a couple of issues going on there that I think will, will have a significant impact.

Diego Sanchez: 00:36:33

Um, on, on, on the transaction.

Dale Vermillion: 00:36:36

Well, because the cost of the transaction has just become so high now and in an affordability tough market, you know, the consumers need every break they can get.

Diego Sanchez: 00:36:44

If you can find it, you know, I think, I think another, another, another area that, that we didn't touch on, um, that I think is, is really relevant to, to your audience is, um, is what the servicers are doing.

Diego Sanchez: 00:36:58

Um, we, we shouldn't sleep on, uh, on the servicers because they are the big ones, like Mr.

Diego Sanchez: 00:37:06

Cooper, New Rez, Penny Mac.

Diego Sanchez: 00:37:09

They are amassing gigantic servicing books, and they are building, and we discovered this at our AI summit, and we talked a lot about it because we had, you know, CEOs of

Diego Sanchez: 00:37:21

these different servicers, uh, giving, giving talks and presentations at the AI summit.

Diego Sanchez: 00:37:29

They're building technology to originate from that servicing book.

Diego Sanchez: 00:37:33

Uh, and so when you think about like the opportunity that's going to be out there, uh, to originate.

Diego Sanchez: 00:37:41

The services are going to be taking a bite of that apple.

Diego Sanchez: 00:37:44

Um, and so when, when you think about retention and how am I going to stay in touch, um, with my borrowers, with my customers?

Diego Sanchez: 00:37:56

Uh, it's really important to do that and to do that in a way that adds value.

Diego Sanchez: 00:38:01

Yep, because those servicers Um are going to be making a lot of offers Uh to your clients, right?

Diego Sanchez: 00:38:09

Um, and so, uh, just being aware Of the businesses that they're building and aware of their intention To do massive origination from that those servicing books It's just another competitor

Diego Sanchez: 00:38:23

that you got to be aware of as you think about your business plan for the next couple of years.

Dale Vermillion: 00:38:28

Yeah.

Dale Vermillion: 00:38:29

And it can't just be a technological touch.

Dale Vermillion: 00:38:31

It's got to be a human touch is what really happens.

Dale Vermillion: 00:38:34

Yep.

Diego Sanchez: 00:38:34

Yep.

Dale Vermillion: 00:38:35

Absolutely.

Dale Vermillion: 00:38:36

So final question, where do you see from your perspective, the industry going in the next?

Diego Sanchez: 00:38:43

Well, I think it's actually going to be a fairly positive story.

Diego Sanchez: 00:38:50

Um, I think that, um, I, this has been a rough couple of years and, you know, it's been rough for, uh, lenders.

Diego Sanchez: 00:39:00

It's been rough for, for, for real estate companies.

Diego Sanchez: 00:39:03

Um, you know, it's been difficult at housing wire.

Diego Sanchez: 00:39:06

You know, we, we, we're not immune to the challenges of the housing market, but it's, it feels like a number of, when you look at the data, Um, there are a number of very, very positive signs.

Diego Sanchez: 00:39:21

Um, so, uh, so one, uh, inventory is creeping back up to a, to a more healthy place.

Diego Sanchez: 00:39:31

It has been very unhealthily, unhealthily low for a number of years, even during this difficult market.

Diego Sanchez: 00:39:37

There was just no, no good inventory out there.

Diego Sanchez: 00:39:41

Um, and so, um, you know, we've been looking at this over the past couple of months.

Diego Sanchez: 00:39:46

Um, and, uh, it, it is, is definitely going up and there are several states.

Diego Sanchez: 00:39:51

Where there's more inventory than there was back in 2019 when we had a more balanced market.

Diego Sanchez: 00:39:58

Um, and so I think inventory is a very positive story.

Diego Sanchez: 00:40:02

Um, I think mortgage rates, I mean, you never know what's going to happen with mortgage rates, right?

Diego Sanchez: 00:40:07

But it seems like there are a couple of dynamics, um, that should lead to lower mortgage rates in the coming years.

Diego Sanchez: 00:40:16

Um, one is, you know, it does seem like the Fed has Successfully, um, you know, beating down inflation and there is a decent chance that they are going to come

Diego Sanchez: 00:40:28

in for the soft landing, um, with, with our economy, which is, would be amazing.

Diego Sanchez: 00:40:33

I don't know if they've ever done that before.

Diego Sanchez: 00:40:35

Um, so we'll see if it, if it actually happens.

Diego Sanchez: 00:40:38

Um, but that, that would be really great.

Diego Sanchez: 00:40:40

And, um, the spreads between, um, between treasuries and mortgage rates.

Diego Sanchez: 00:40:48

Thanks.

Diego Sanchez: 00:40:48

You know, which are a signal on like volatility and how comfortable people are with with mortgages in the housing market.

Diego Sanchez: 00:40:57

Those spreads have really narrowed over the past 6 to 12 months, and it seems like they will continue to narrow now again.

Diego Sanchez: 00:41:05

Something could happen that, that throws the world into chaos and then all bets are off, but it looks like the spreads will continue to narrow.

Diego Sanchez: 00:41:15

So, you know, that second data point of, of mortgage rates.

Diego Sanchez: 00:41:19

Um, uh, seem to be coming down.

Diego Sanchez: 00:41:23

Uh, and then home prices, which, um, uh, have, it's been great for homeowners because they've just been going up and up and up because of that lack of inventory.

Diego Sanchez: 00:41:35

Um, those, seem to have plateaued.

Diego Sanchez: 00:41:40

Um, and if, you know, we, we update our Altos research data every week, um, and it really does seem like, like, like we're hitting that, that sort of flat line in home prices.

Diego Sanchez: 00:41:54

And if you look at, um, the percentage of, uh, home listers who are dropping their prices, um, that is creeping up.

Diego Sanchez: 00:42:07

Um, and that's a signal that those home prices will either, you know, stay flat or maybe even decline a little bit, which I think would be a very positive story because they've gone up probably too much.

Diego Sanchez: 00:42:22

In terms of, you know, affordability for first time home buyers.

Diego Sanchez: 00:42:25

Um, it's, it's been a lot of, uh, a lot of home price increase.

Diego Sanchez: 00:42:29

Um, so if you look at all those data points, It's it's a really positive story.

Diego Sanchez: 00:42:35

Um, and then, um, you know, if we, if we can, in fact, have, uh, a relatively soft landing in the economy, um, we still have this great demographic patch of, uh, millennials and then Gen Z who need

Diego Sanchez: 00:42:51

to buy a home, who are, who are creating families, creating households and, and need to buy a home.

Diego Sanchez: 00:42:56

So I think it's going to be, I think it's gonna be a good couple of years.

Diego Sanchez: 00:43:00

Uh, and then you add on to that, that like there are millions and millions of people who have gotten mortgage rates, who have gotten mortgages with rates in the, in the sevens.

Diego Sanchez: 00:43:10

Um, and if, if you get rates that, you know, dial back into the, into the mid to high fives like they could, um, in, in 2025, uh, or maybe they even go a little bit below that.

Diego Sanchez: 00:43:21

That's a pretty big refinance opportunity

Dale Vermillion: 00:43:24

it is

Diego Sanchez: 00:43:26

And then you tack on the the home equity opportunity because all these people have had such incredible gains and people want to age in place So, you know, they got to do repairs on their home um, and uh, you know There's

Diego Sanchez: 00:43:38

a lot of dynamics that, that, that lead to home equity potentially being an area that will boom and reverse mortgages.

Diego Sanchez: 00:43:46

Um, so, um, yeah, I think there's a lot of opportunity in the next two to five years.

Diego Sanchez: 00:43:52

And I'm, I'm personally pretty excited about it.

Dale Vermillion: 00:43:56

Me too.

Dale Vermillion: 00:43:56

You and I are on the same boat.

Dale Vermillion: 00:43:58

I think literally this is right now, one of the most opportunistic markets we've seen in a decade.

Dale Vermillion: 00:44:04

Um, when you look at the amount of equity that consumers have to work with to build wealth and pay off debt, the amount of debt that's out there today that needs to be

Dale Vermillion: 00:44:12

eliminated, you know, people are paying 28 percent when they could pay that off at 6.

Dale Vermillion: 00:44:17

5%.

Dale Vermillion: 00:44:17

It doesn't seem so bad anymore when you do that.

Dale Vermillion: 00:44:19

And, um, these are things that can really create opportunities and the purchase market just gets better and better.

Dale Vermillion: 00:44:25

And better every day.

Dale Vermillion: 00:44:25

Inventory has been going the right direction.

Dale Vermillion: 00:44:27

Logan Matashami, who, you know, is the analyst for you guys that, you know, dear friend, one of the great greatest analysts in the country when it comes to providing information is constantly talking about the inventory improvements.

Dale Vermillion: 00:44:40

And, and that's been a really good sign that we've seen.

Dale Vermillion: 00:44:42

So I'm as excited as you are.

Dale Vermillion: 00:44:45

Well, let's close out.

Dale Vermillion: 00:44:46

Thank you so much.

Dale Vermillion: 00:44:47

First off for, for being on here, Diego, you are just such a light, um, in the industry and so much knowledge.

Dale Vermillion: 00:44:55

Talk to us about what people should be doing, what are the lenders watching this, the executives watching this, and even the loan officers watching this.

Dale Vermillion: 00:45:03

Um, what should they be doing from an information standpoint to reach out to housing wire?

Dale Vermillion: 00:45:08

What are the conferences they should be attending?

Dale Vermillion: 00:45:10

What are the things you guys are doing that lenders and originators should be involved in, um, right now?

Diego Sanchez: 00:45:17

Yeah, I've got a couple, I've got a couple of recommendations.

Diego Sanchez: 00:45:20

Um, so one, um, I think our editor in chief, Sarah Wheeler, uh, has by far the best podcasts In housing, housing, housing, our daily, uh, that is a really

Diego Sanchez: 00:45:34

excellent way to stay in touch with everything that housing where it has going on.

Diego Sanchez: 00:45:39

So Logan goes on that show twice a week.

Diego Sanchez: 00:45:43

Uh, James climbing the managing editor of our newsroom goes on once or twice a week.

Diego Sanchez: 00:45:47

Mike Simonson, the president of Altos research, which we acquired last year, um, goes on regularly.

Diego Sanchez: 00:45:55

Um, it is such a great show for keeping your, your, your finger on the pulse of what's going on in housing.

Diego Sanchez: 00:46:03

Um, so sticking with, uh, Mike Simonson and Logan Motoshami just for a second, uh, they are two of the best forecasters in housing and analysts in housing.

Diego Sanchez: 00:46:16

Um, and they both do weekly work.

Diego Sanchez: 00:46:20

Uh, and research and analysis that I think is pretty helpful to, to, to stay in touch with, uh, so Logan does the weekly tracker, which you can just find on, on, on housing wire and it goes out in all of our

Diego Sanchez: 00:46:31

newsletters, uh, and, and Mike Simonson actually on the Altos research YouTube channel does this really great.

Diego Sanchez: 00:46:40

Weekly 10 minute video where he just breaks down, this is what's happening in the housing market.

Diego Sanchez: 00:46:46

It gives all the data, inventory, home prices.

Diego Sanchez: 00:46:49

Um, and, uh, it's a really great way to keep track of, uh, housing market data on a weekly basis.

Diego Sanchez: 00:46:57

And then I have to mention again, um, especially for your audience.

Diego Sanchez: 00:47:01

Our upcoming IMB summit, the agenda is being put together by Sarah Wheeler, our editor in chief.

Diego Sanchez: 00:47:10

She's amazing at putting together content and bringing the best speakers in the industry together to deliver that content.

Diego Sanchez: 00:47:20

Um, so October 1st.

Diego Sanchez: 00:47:23

Back in Dallas.

Diego Sanchez: 00:47:24

Um, and again, you can just, you can find a link to, uh, the IMB summit, uh, website on housingwire.

Diego Sanchez: 00:47:32

com.

Diego Sanchez: 00:47:33

Um, I think those are the big things that, that will help, you know, the, the podcast, keeping in touch with what Logan and Mike are thinking about and writing about, uh, and then the IMB summit.

Dale Vermillion: 00:47:45

Well, and, and access to the housing wire.

Dale Vermillion: 00:47:47

Information every day.

Dale Vermillion: 00:47:48

I mean, being a housing wire member, housing wire plus member is even better.

Dale Vermillion: 00:47:53

Um, so you get access to all of the information.

Dale Vermillion: 00:47:55

Um, that would be my recommendation to everybody in the mortgage industry.

Dale Vermillion: 00:47:59

So you guys do an incredible job with the information and have such a great team.

Dale Vermillion: 00:48:04

Clayton and Leslie and yourself and Logan and Sarah, it's just the dream team.

Dale Vermillion: 00:48:09

It's really what it comes down to.

Diego Sanchez: 00:48:11

We, uh, we, we, we do have a lot of fun.

Diego Sanchez: 00:48:14

Um, and I think that.

Diego Sanchez: 00:48:16

You know, the people who come to our events can see it in person.

Diego Sanchez: 00:48:21

We actually like to hang out with each other.

Diego Sanchez: 00:48:23

Um, and we like to hang out with the industry, um, and learn together, uh, network together and have, have a good time together.

Diego Sanchez: 00:48:32

Um, so appreciate that feedback.

Diego Sanchez: 00:48:34

Um, I, I, I love the team.

Diego Sanchez: 00:48:36

Uh, I think it's, I think it's a great team.

Diego Sanchez: 00:48:39

Uh, it's the team that Clayton and I have built over the past six years.

Diego Sanchez: 00:48:43

Uh, and it's been a, it's just been a great journey.

Dale Vermillion: 00:48:46

Awesome.

Dale Vermillion: 00:48:46

Well, I can tell you, uh, after 30 years of doing conferences, hundreds and hundreds of them, that gathering conference that you guys had in Scottsdale was unbelievable.

Dale Vermillion: 00:48:59

It was, it was a great networking conference.

Dale Vermillion: 00:49:02

It was great information.

Dale Vermillion: 00:49:04

It was timely.

Dale Vermillion: 00:49:05

It was short pieces.

Dale Vermillion: 00:49:07

So you didn't have people talking to you for an hour and a half and you're, you know, can't keep attention.

Dale Vermillion: 00:49:11

It was really done.

Dale Vermillion: 00:49:12

As good as any conference I've ever seen.

Dale Vermillion: 00:49:14

Kudos to you guys.

Dale Vermillion: 00:49:15

I

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:16

appreciate that.

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:16

Yeah.

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:17

You know, as, uh, as executives.

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:20

We think about how we like to experience conferences and, uh, you know, unfortunately, how short our, our, uh, you know, my attention span is at times and, and it, there's not, there's

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:32

nothing, um, that, that you can say in, in, in 30 minutes that you can't say in 15 minutes.

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:39

That's right.

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:40

And it's going to be way more punchy.

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:42

That's right.

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:43

And people are going to remember it a lot more.

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:45

If you deliver it in 15 minutes, right?

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:47

Because if it's 30 minutes, you're kind of looking at your phone.

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:49

You're, you know, you're talking to the person next to you.

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:52

Um, you lose the focus.

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:53

And so we do try to keep the sessions to, you know, 15 to 25 minutes.

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:57

25 minutes is max, right?

Diego Sanchez: 00:49:59

Um, that's like a, a really interesting panel or something.

Diego Sanchez: 00:50:03

Um, just the key again, you know, the key to conferences is like, Okay.

Diego Sanchez: 00:50:08

Can I just take away, you know, a handful of nuggets, um, that I can integrate back into my business.

Diego Sanchez: 00:50:14

Um, and so when you keep those sessions punchy, it makes it easier to, uh, to deliver those nuggets.

Dale Vermillion: 00:50:22

Well, Diego, great conversation.

Dale Vermillion: 00:50:24

Thank you again for your time and for your willingness to do this.

Dale Vermillion: 00:50:28

Uh, so appreciate your friendship and your partnership with housing wire.

Dale Vermillion: 00:50:32

Um, thanks for what you guys do for the industry.

Dale Vermillion: 00:50:34

Uh, we, we could not be who we are without you guys.

Dale Vermillion: 00:50:38

So we want to thank you for that.

Dale Vermillion: 00:50:39

And, uh, I look forward to the next time I get to see, which will probably be in October and Dallas isn't, you know, in October, it's not 150 degrees there.

Dale Vermillion: 00:50:47

So it's a nice time to be in Dallas.

Diego Sanchez: 00:50:49

It might actually be a really good time to be in Dallas.

Diego Sanchez: 00:50:52

Um, so I really look forward to that as well and hope you have a great rest of your summer.

Dale Vermillion: 00:50:58

You too, Diego.

Dale Vermillion: 00:50:59

Thanks so much.

Dale Vermillion: 00:51:00

So that wraps up another, uh, batting a thousand where we interview the industry's heavy hitters today.

Dale Vermillion: 00:51:06

Again, we had Diego Sanchez, great conversation, great interview.

Dale Vermillion: 00:51:10

Uh, we'll look forward to seeing you guys on the next one until then.

Dale Vermillion: 00:51:12

God bless.

Dale Vermillion: 00:51:13

Have a great rest of your month.

Dale Vermillion: 00:51:16

Thanks everybody.

Dale Vermillion: 00:51:18

Batting 1000 is a production of Mortgage Champions, a company that's been transforming the people who transform companies since 1995.

Dale Vermillion: 00:51:25

Have a suggested topic or guest?

Dale Vermillion: 00:51:27

Contact my team on Twitter, that's at Dale Vermillion, or tweet us using the hashtag Batting1000, that's hashtag Batting1000.